“That black flag of ISIS has to be globally rejected like the swastika.”
Appearing Tuesday on MSNBC, Sebastian Gorka, deputy assistant to President Trump, had a powerful exchange with hosts Ali Velshi and Stephanie Ruhle.
The transcript and video are below:
VELSHI: Most of the extremist-inspired attacks on the West we’ve seen in the last year or so have little or no material or operational connection to ISIS. … These new attacks seem to be almost exclusively inspirational, imploring attackers in the West to use whatever they’ve got at their disposal to attack Westerners. And a lot of people say this isn’t going to wane despite the imminent collapse of ISIS. How does your strategy deal with this?
GORKA: Well, first things first, it jettisons the political correctness of the last eight years, and we call the enemy for what it is. We don’t say that they’re unemployed people and we just need more jobs.
VELSHI: How does that actually stop an attack?
GORKA: May I answer your question without being interrupted?… You cannot solve a problem unless you are allowed to talk truthfully about it. So we will call it “radical Islamic terrorism”; we will target the ideology, and we will call them out for being evil, and we will work with our Muslim partners. … We are here to help those nations that share our values and share our interests, and help them fight the fight, whether it’s the Iraqis and Kurds in Iraq, whether it’s the Egyptians in the Sinai, or whether it’s our European allies that now have to deal with this very severe threat to their countries.
VELSHI: I don’t understand how calling it by its name helps to stop the attacks in Paris or Belgium or in London.
GORKA: If you, God forbid, caught cancer, and the hospital was forbidden from calling it cancer, and said, “You have the flu, go home and hydrate and takes some aspirin,” would you actually have the right treatment?
RUHLE: No, but there’s still no cure for cancer.
GORKA: Have you not heard of chemo?
RUHLE: I have heard of chemo, and cancer can still kill you. So it doesn’t matter what you call it —
GORKA: Cancer can be cured. It doesn’t matter what you call it? Really? So if I call it the flu, and say go home and take some aspirin, what’s going to happen to you, Stephanie?
VELSHI: Mr. Gorka, there must be a better response to that, right? I asked you a very straightforward question. This has morphed into something else —
GORKA: And I gave you a very simple answer. If you misdiagnose anything, whether it’s a serious disease or an international geopolitical threat, you will never solve it. For the last eight years, we had an administration that would say, “Oh, it’s economic. Oh, these people are disenfranchised.” No, it’s not about economics, it’s not about being disenfranchised, it’s about people who have an ideology that is evil and has to be destroyed.
VELSHI: So let’s agree that the question that I’m asking is about what do you do [when] people who are committing terror attacks, who are inspired by, as opposed to operationally guided by, ISIS — so the fact that you destroy ISIS doesn’t necessarily have an impact on these Western attackers. We don’t have to get into a definitional argument here. What do you actually do to fight that?
RUHLE: To get to the lone wolf lunatics?
VELSHI: That’s a better way to say it.
GORKA: There’s no such thing as a lone wolf. You do know that? That was a phrase invented by the last administration to make Americans stupid. .. .There has never been a serious attack or a serious plot that was unconnected from ISIS or Al-Qaeda, at least through the ideology and the TTPs, the tactics, the training, the techniques, and the procedures that they supply through the internet. Never happened. It’s bogus. This is an international global threat.
What we have to do now is not only destroy organizations like ISIS, which we are doing, — they will be annihilated — but also delegitimize the ideology so it will become as heinous and as rejected as fascism and nazism is today. That black flag of ISIS has to be globally rejected like the swastika, and we will work with our Muslim partners to overtly and covertly delegitimize their message. That’s the definition of victory. When people don’t want to become jihadis, that’s when we will have won.
(First reported by The Daily Wire)http://www.dailywire.com/news/19503/sebastian-gorka-drops-truth-bombs-msnbc-hosts-frank-camp (August 9, 2017)